A question of marriage

May 9, 2012 in Abstinence,Barack Obama,Being human,Bible,Christian,Christian lifestyle,Christian values,Christianity,Consumerism,Discipleship,Gender,Honesty,Jesus,Love Wins,Marriage,Masculinity,Politics,Testimony with 11 Comments

Barack Obama this week spoke publicly on the subject same-sex marriage. He made clear his endorsement of same-sex marriage and championed the push to make it legal.

It’s a big issue being discussed in popular culture and the church right now.Different people both in and outside the church are taking stands on opposing sides – and there are some very cruel and unloving words being said by some, on both sides.

The thing is, all of this discussion on the rights and wrongs of same-sex marriage completely misses the point.

It’s not the right discussion to be having in the first place.

There’s a much bigger and more significant discussion we should be engaged with. One that goes to the root of the issue.

A discussion on what marriage is.

What it means.

What it’s about.

Where it came from.

It’s purpose.

This to me is much more interesting than the debate that seems to be going on right now, and encapsulates this issue and many many more.

In an age where it’s become more and more easy to get married and divorced, where the number of failed marriages is increasing, the true meaning and purpose of marriage is beginning to be lost.

Indeed, most people now have either been in a failed marriage, or have relatives and/or friends who have been.

I’m one of these.

My parents divorced and I was very much stuck in the middle. My Dad’s second marriage also sadly ended as well.

Culture has changed. More and more couples are now living together and not getting married, or living together before they marry to ‘make sure’ that if they get married it will work out. Some now get married if one of the couple accidentally gets pregnant.

It happens so often now that we simply accept it.

We don’t really think about it.

Being unmarried, I don’t pretend I have all the answers about what marriage is. I could probably say a few things it isn’t, from the experience being stuck in the middle of my parents marriage growing up. I do have a few ideas of what it might be.

But I’m hardly the greatest authority on it, not yet.

So today I don’t want to answer this question. I want us merely to start asking it.

Instead of getting caught up in a discussion of whether certain people groups should or shouldn’t get married, let’s instead ask some important questions.

What does marriage mean?

Is a civil partnership a marriage?

Is it merely a legal contract between two people?

Where does God come in?

Why should we even get married?

Who is marriage for?

These are the questions we need to begin asking and reflecting on. This is a really important issue and one that impacts most of us one way or another. It’s one we must come to terms with.

If we’re married or considering getting married one day in the future we need to seriously consider them. We need to ask them to ourselves and spend time pondering them.

A lot of people who get married never ask them – not seriously anyway. People look at the fairytale or Hollywood fantasy about marriage and make it their dream. Others look on it as an ideal, something to aspire to. Still more think it is the thing that will complete them or make them whole.

But it doesn’t matter who we are and whatever we believe about God. If we want to have a meaningful, successful marriage, if we are serious about marriage, then we need to ask some of those questions of ourselves.

In the process of answering them, we may find many of the other questions are answered. We may also discover whether we truly want to enter into marriage, and maybe, we might end up with a more successful, meaningful marriage.

So let’s begin asking – and answering – those questions.

What do you think marriage is?

What’s your experience of marriage?

How would you answer some of the questions I mention above?

What do you make of Obama’s comments?

James Prescott is a writer & creative exploring social media & the messy but divine journey of life. He blogs regularly at James Prescott.co.uk & is a regular guest blogger at bigbible.org.uk and other sites. Follow him on Twitter and Facebook.

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About James Prescott: James Prescott is a writer & blogger who explores how we find divine hope in the messiness of live. He's a regular guest blogger & author of '5 Steps to Encouragement: The Secret to Transforming the World' Follow him at @JamesPrescott77

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http://twitter.com/BigNed Ned Keitt-Pride

James, I think this is an important discussion for this reason – at least in the States, marriage has been linked with several important personal/civil rights. Things like being able to visit a loved one in the hospital (in certain circumstances esp. emergencies), or gain coverage from employee health benefits are limited to married couples in the vast majority of cases. There are tax benefits for being married. Insurance rates are reduced for married couples. Not being able to marry creates a distinct quality of life difference for those denied the opportunity.

As a result, I think there are two discussions here – from a non-religious perspective, how do we protect the rights of people to equal protection under the law? Once that is settled, with something like a more universal adoption of the civil union perhaps, then there is the separate issue of what constitutes “marriage”.
- JamesPrescott77
  
  Thanks for commenting Ned – great to hear from you after so long! An interesting response with some good points, well argued. I definitely do see your point of view and it’s interesting to hear this from the perspective of someone living in the States.
  
  I guess my view was that if we can first establish what we mean by marriage, then the other questions might take care of themselves – but maybe that’s a niave, idealistic view? I’m an optimist by nature. I appreciate the political and legal perspective that needs to come out here, but again is that not covered by the bigger question?
  
  The great thing is that the post is stimulating discussion, which is really the point. I don’t pretend I have all the answers but I just want us to be discussing it, which is what seems to be the response to the post so far, both here and on social media.
  
  Thanks for your contribution, great to hear from you again. Blessings, JP.
girltaristhan

Back in March about the same time that the Campaign for Marriage went a bit bonkers I posed the question on Facebook: “Here’s a random one for you to ponder. By signing the #c4m petition does that make a person a homophobe?” (or homophone as I just mistyped!). In the end there were 48 comments and the conversation went over about two or three days. You can read them here.

A friend of mine as part of the discussion said “I cannot understand why someone who doesn’t consider that they are a homophobe would want to obstruct equal love What makes one love better than another?” It was also pointed out that although gay couples have equal rights to a certain degree they are still second class citizens.

There are teenagers here and in the US (Amongst other places) who are in the end resorting to suicide because they don’t get the acceptance that they need. When I was at school a friend of mine came out to me and I didn’t really have any idea what to say to her. I’d never come across a gay person in real life (okay I’d seen Jack and Will on Will and Grace but that was a TV show). I think I said something about how it wouldn’t change our friendship and she was the same person.

Another friend came out to me when I was at university – this time it was more awkward for them – Their parents are on the team for the youth group at a local church. I think they were very fearful of what other people would think of them if their child came out as bi-sexual – should they disown their child or support the in their choice. Well I think it was kept within the family and no-one outside a small trusted circle knew of what had happened. I haven’t spoken to the person in enough detail to see where they stand on it now they have moved home but I do hope said person is happy what ever has happened.

I decided that I wouldn’t sign the petition – I had too many questions to ask and no one was giving me the answers. If I went to the leadership at church I was getting a flat “Sign it” response. If I went to my friend who is in a homosexual relationship, I was getting a “Don’t Sign It” response but no one was really answering my questions. It was the conversation on Facebook that gave me the most responses and answered the most questions.

As the verse is in the bible – let him without sin cast the first stone. I can’t stand up and point the finger at the all the sinners because I’d have to point at myself first – I know that I am by no means perfect. I make mistakes and I sin – I know I do and I try not to when I can.

Read John 3:16 it says “For God so loved the world….” that’s not the white people or the black people (Sorry if that’s un PC) that’s not the rich or the poor – it’s everyone – so doesn’t everyone include homosexual people. We then have the choice to accept God right? I don’t have all the answers and so until the second coming I will try and love those around me like myself. Whether that’s the people next door with the really annoying dogs or the crazy lollypop lady on the way to work who I am sure has a death wish. I will try to love the spam callers who bother me at work everyday – they are just doing their jobs.

Sorry epic comment!
- JamesPrescott77
  
  Thanks for your comment Hannah – no apologies required, fantastic. It is an interesting discussion isn’t it? None of us are perfect, none of us can throw stones, we all need grace and forgiveness – I hate to see Christians sitting in judgement on these kind of things when we should be loving one another and showing grace.
  
  Maybe I’m idealistic but I think if we go back to the basics of what marriage is, it might answer the questions for us.
  
  Thanks for commenting, great that this is stimulating discussion! Blessings, JP.
  - Mia
    
    Might be a good idea to start differentiating between “judging” and “speaking the truth”. You can say something is wrong and still love that person. A friend of mine is gay. She knows that I think it’s wrong but still we are good friends and I like and respect her for many other things.
    In my opinion, just saying “We mustn’t say anything against this and that behavior because we are all sinners” is just as wrong. Jesus always told people their behavior is wrong.
    As I said…there’s a difference between judgement and speaking the truth, just as there is a difference between a person’s behavior and his/her value.
    
    BTW: Aren’t you judging, too, when you say that you “hate to see Christians sitting in judgement of these kind of things when we should be loving one another”? Just asking…
    - JamesPrescott77
      
      Hey Mia,
      
      I agree with you that there is a difference between loving someone and speaking the truth in love, and there is a difference between a person’s behaviour and their inherent value. That applies to us all. There is always a fine line between the two though – which your example definitely shows you navigate very well.
      
      In terms of the judgement issue. I don’t intend to sit in judgement and I hope I don’t – there is fine line though between sitting in judgement and standing up for truth and justice. Jesus didn’t sit in judgement on people – He loved the woman at the well and the woman caught in adultery, He didn’t judge or condemn them. He did speak the truth about their sin, but not in a way that condemned them.
      
      Scripture says there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, yet I see so many Christians condemning others, especially in this issue.
      
      Let me make this clear Mia, I definitely do not mean you here in any way at all. But I have seen it elsewhere.
      
      It happens especially in the American evangelical community but even in the UK too. Indeed, many young people are leaving the church in the US over this issue and because of the judgemental view of some Christians in the US. (which you can read more about in this great blog post by Rachel Held Evans, a great US Christian writer: http://rachelheldevans.com/win-culture-war-lose-generation-amendment-one-north-carolina)
      
      However, bottom line here is we are all sinners and none of us are perfect. God loves us all, we are all equal before Him and it’s His job to judge, not ours.
      
      Thanks for your comment, great to hear from you. JP.
Iwanttobeatree

I (an unmarried, non christian but engaged to a lady person) believe that marriage is two things.
One – it is a legal thing that gives you certain protections and so therefore should carry the same rights, irrelevant of who you are joining together with and whatever you call it (ie marriage and civil partnership should mean the same thing in a legal sense).
Two – It is a solemn vow that you will stay with and be faithful to the person you are marrying until you die.

So, it gives you legal security and it gives you much more emotional security than being unmarried.

So obviously, that’s my take on it from a non christian point of view. I don’t care what it’s called as long as it has all those things.
- JamesPrescott77
  
  Thanks for your comment, interesting to get a view from outside the church on what’s an important issue. Hope to hear more from you. Keep reading! JP.
Mia

Instead of talking about if McDonald’s should use Argentinian beef for its burgers, let’s ask what a burger is.
Isn’t it more than just a roll with some patty? Needn’t it be made with passion?
And burgers cannot only be bought at McDonald’s anymore, but also at other restaurants…

What’s the point?!

Nice little article but to me it has nothing to do with Obama’s statement.
Marc

A union between one man and one woman. Simple as that.
- JamesPrescott77
  
  Simple and to the point – yet raises so many other questions too. Great comment Marc.