This week I have been reading and learning a lot about Mahatma Gandhi. There was a documentary on Sunday about him, and that inspired me to do a bit of research, and also to watch ‘Gandhi’ the superb Oscar-winning biopic starring Ben Kingsley. Now the man wasn’t a Christian, but the more I looked at how he lived his life, his values, his motivation, his attitude and how he treated people, the more I see a life lived by Christ-like values, and which reflected the nature and character of Jesus more than many Christians I know – including myself. Ghandi was a Hindu, but was a student of many religions. He read the Bible, and was even quoted once as saying ‘Yes I am (a Hindu). I am also a Christian, a Muslim, a Buddhist and a Jew.”

It appears to me that although the man was himself a Hindu, he certainly understood the teachings of Jesus and valued them greatly.

One quote I found from Ghandhi was very insightful though, and so true in terms of a lot of people’s perceptions of Christians.

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.”

How insightful is that?

I think it reflects what a lot of people outside the church especially, think about Christianity. The essential message of Jesus and His life they get and understand, but they don’t get how people who follow it can be so religious, legalistic and unlike Christ. And the way that we communicate it to them is often very poor, lets be honest.

Now what’s important here is to qualify this.

No Christians are perfect, and by definition every Christian is a hypocrite.

Christians aren’t this separate species of people, who suddenly become perfect and don’t make any mistakes just because we believe a certain thing to be true.

We all screw up at times, we all make mistakes just like everyone else. We aren’t above everyone else or better than everyone else, we don’t have a moral claim on the world and we don’t have a right to sit in judgement or look at those who don’t believe as any different, or worse than ourselves. Its a total disgrace to the name of Jesus to even think like that.

If anyone who claims to be Christian acts like that, then they aren’t following the example of Jesus – He was the one who did have the right, and He never did. In fact He reserved His harshest criticism for religious people, not for people outside the church.

“Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”

Perhaps us Christians should learn a lesson from that.

There are churches and Christians with this attitude, and I’ve experiened them myself. It’s usually on a very subconcious level, by people who genuinely care and want to help, whose intentions are good. But I’ve heard it and seen it in the past, and it sickens me. Its those Christians and churches that people are usually describing when they talk about why they don’t go to church – and for good reason.

(And yes, before we continue, I’m aware that I sound slightly judgemental saying all this. But this is only my considered opinion from a bit of my own experience and from a lot of reflection and thought. I am saying it because I’m passionate about Jesus and want His message to be communicated in the best and truest sense. Its not a personal attack or judgement on anyone, its how I think things are. The church needs to have the right perspective on what the message of Jesus means, and we need to be united in that common cause, and that’s what I’m trying to do. Whether you agree or disagree is up to you.)

The problem is that many of these Christians simply don’t know they are doing this, because they come from a religious, Christian subculture which encourages it. Their intentions are good and they love Jesus, but the tone and essence of their message doesn’t paint Jesus in His true perspective. It shows parts of the truth, and sometimes works because of this, but it never gives the full picture.

Its a limited perspective and because of this often comes across badly

This whole issue comes from this idea that has been touted about for years that following Jesus is all about the forgiveness of sins and nothing else. The ‘Genesis 3′ worldview of Jesus being all about sin, and rules, and religion. That you accept Jesus and suddenly all your sins are forgiven and you can carry on your life near enough as it was, with a few minor differences, because you’ve got your ticket to heaven. Jesus is all about taking care of sin, and that’s all.

It narrows down Jesus and isn’t the full story. Certainly not according to the words of Jesus and the scriptures, all of which speak of the ‘restoration of all things’.

Jesus came to showed us how to live a life as God originally designed us to live, and then sacrified Himself on a Roman execution stake after a Roman flogging, being rejected by all.

This made possible the restoration of the world to how God originally designed it to be – including mankinds’ rejection of God – or ‘sin’.

From then on its all been about the human race participating with God in the restoration of all things to how God always intended them, restoring the relationship between man and God, and bringing heaven and earth back together again, as it was in Genesis 1 & 2, how God originally designed it to be.

That’s the real picture.

It changes everything in terms of how followers of Jesus should speak with people who don’t know Jesus and what their attitude should be towards them.

It changes everything that traditionally is associated with ‘being a Christian’ and how some Christians and churches often speak, behave and treat people.

Instead of judgement, hypocrisy and condemnation it becomes about restoration, about finding our true identity, about making this world better, about grace and mercy, about finding God’s best for us and bringing heaven and earth more and more back together and about us all being the same before God – all saved by grace and invited to be part of God’s kingdom, and none of us being totally perfect.

It gives us real, genuine hope.

It tells us the simple truth that we might feel like we are worthless, but we are actually worth everything, and we are welcomed and loved as we are.

Gandhi may not have been a Christian, but he embodied a lot of the qualities that Christ asks us all to take on. If he had been a Christian he probably would have had a huge evangelical impact on the world.

Not many of us will ever be quite like Gandhi, but we don’t have to be Gandhi to embody the qualities of Jesus, the qualities of humility, servanthood, love, grace, mercy, justice, truth and forgiveness.

It starts with us making little changes to our lives and try and bring these values and truths and make them part of our everyday, in all our habits, at work, in how we treat people and talk to people, in the decisions we make – big and small.

If we are choosing everyday to follow Jesus way and not our own, then we will be building His kingdom, helping restore this world to how God intended, and, little by little, bringing heaven back to earth.

Now that’s something worth talking about.

I tried today to have a day when I didn’t think about church, theology, philosophy and culture. It worked. Almost. At 11.05pm God spoke to me, and it was a message I couldn’t ignore. Just a short message, but one I knew was so spot on I had to share it then and there. You ever have those moments, when something clicks and you HAVE say it that moment? This was it.

I heard a song and one of the lines in it talked about the phrase ‘break the mould’.

Heard that phrase before? Often in tributes to people “Oh, when God made that person they broke the mould” or about an artist, musician or cultural figure. When we say that phrase we normally talk about people who broke convention, people who pushed the boundaries, who revolutionised their field, who wasn’t afraid to do something different, which changed the world.

It occurred to me that we often think that these people are unique. We assume only certain people can do this or will ever do this. Like Bono (below, pictured at Cardiff) for example.

Why?

Is that a compliment to them, or an escape clause for us?

You see, we were created break moulds. God made us with the ability to create, to make things, to learn, evolve and develop. He imparted a part of Himself into us, that visionary, creative, innovate side. Its in all of us, not just some special people. God made us all with the ability to push boundaries, to do new things. If we didn’t then we’d be static. Things would never change. The world would never change.

Without these people we don’t grow.

This is what God wants as the norm. If we let convention, stability and comfort rule our lives, and we don’t push boundaries in our own life, then we also stagnate. We only grow when we go out of our comfort zone and make a step of faith – whether we’re a person of faith or not. If you look at a lot of the most successful people earlier in their careers, they were risk takers, they all broke the mould, they were all able to see things differently, and weren’t afraid  to pursue that vision.

Now not everyone may have the gift of vision, of seeing the bigger picture. But we can all grow. We can all mature, learn and improve. God wants us to become the best we can be, the way He designed us. Life is a journey of becoming the person God designed us, and playing our part in His restoration of the world to His design.

The world we live in, the convention and culture of the world, is very different to the kind that God originally designed for it, and for us. God calls us all to help restore the world to how He originally designed it, to partake with Him, co-create and participate in the restoration of all things. He calls us to a life by His values, His teachings, redefining culture and bringing heaven to earth in our everyday.

God made us all to be the kind of people that ‘break the mould’. It doesn’t mean we have to be famous, high-achievers, or go off and do missions somewhere. No. It can do, but not for all of us. God wants us to break the mould every day. By doing things differently every day. By bringing the way of God into our everyday life. By bringing the sacred and common closer. By choosing His way in our everyday lives. Our decisions, how we treat people, our language, our values, our habits. All a little bit different to how the rest of the world do it.

That’s as radical as standing in front of 1,000 people preaching change. In fact, in many ways it can be even more powerful – especially in a culture where people are less and less inclined to believe what people say in public. Big change will come when many people change their daily lives to reflect a different set of values. Then it becomes a movement, it becomes more part of our culture, and in turn our culture starts to become a little bit more like how Jesus intended.

Christians started the movement against slavery. And it started with people who supported it making small changes. Changing their own lives to reflect what they believe. Not being afraid to be a little different. Then the more people saw this, the more people understood, and a movement grew up.  In the end, legal slavery was brought to an end. The big issue now is the environment, which was hardly an issue about 25 years ago. But something happened, someone saw a problem. They started little changes and eventually everyone cottoned on, and now suddenly we are all bound by law to be environmentally friendly. Indeed, its through the little things we make such a big difference to our environment.

You see, we can all do our bit to change the world, help God restore it to His design. We simply cannot afford to stick to the world’s mould or be static. Jesus didn’t.

Breaking the mould shouldn’t be something we allow a minority to do.

Its what all followers of Jesus are called to do.

As you’ve probably noticed, the look of this blog has changed. I’ve been thinking for some time it might be time to freshen things up a bit and change the look of this site to something a bit brighter, fresher and more a reflection of where I am.

Many times in past few months I have thought about changing this, but decided against it because it would have been change for the sake of it, and out of impulse rather than reasoning. However now, taking into account the all changes God has been doing in my own life recently, recent changes I’ve made to my own spiritual disciplines and my decision to get baptised next month (more on all that in another blog post), I felt that a change might now be appropriate – for the right reasons. The change is more of a symbol of my own development and change and how I have moved on, and not just an excuse for a change. It feels almost like another stage in my own personal growth.

Personally, I like the design I’ve chosen.More colourful, more creative, less cluttered, more reflective of where I am right now. Of all the options available it was one that not only I liked the most, but also reflected more of me than any of the others.

2009 so far has been a year of tranformation, healing, growth learning and new experiences so far.

It has not always been easy going through this process, but it has been very beneficial for me and made a huge difference to my life and my outlook. I feel like I have learnt a lot and grown up enormously, although I know that its all a process, and I have so much more still to learn. But this year has been a significant one of transformation in my life, that is for sure, something I will explain more in a later post.

It makes sense that as I reach a moment, in baptism, which is not only a recognition of what has already been happening and what God has done in my life, but sybolises a commitment on my part to work with Him and continue this ongoing process of transformation, that my website also undergoes a bit of a transformation too.

Indeed, I hope that as I mature and grow in my knowledge and understanding, that it will be reflected in the quality and content of my posts. I certainly feel that in the last year or so my ideas on what following Jesus and church really is have developed and broadened, and I am sure that will continue to be the case as time goes on.The question of ‘what is church’ will never really be answered fully. It is such a broad and deep question and the debate and discussion over that will go on for a long time.

The purpose of this site remains the same however. It is explore and discuss what Jesus really meant by church, what real church should look like – both in its nature and in its personality in our cultural context. To discuss what it really means to be a follower of Jesus – both today and at all times – and how the church needs to continue to evolve and adapt whilst keeping its message distinctive.

In my next few posts I will explain more about what I envision a local church should be, and will then be examining in more detail what God has been doing in me this year, and why I have chosen to get baptised.

I heard a speaker at the Willow Creek Leadership conference today who has greatly challenged, inspired and encouraged me. To be honest, all of them have done this and I will go into this more in future posts. However today I heard strategy and management speaker Gary Hamel, speaking on innovation, bottom-up leadership and a type of evolutionary leadership in church, and a type of innovative, creative culture, where everyone is free to contribute and participate in the onward creation and re-creation of church. He said not only is this important, but vital to the growth of church in future years.

I also saw an interview with Jessica Jackely, co-founder of a site called Kiva who facilitate loans direct from people online to African entrepreneurs. She spoke of the leadership structure of the organisation, where although there are leaders and decision makers in positions, that the environment is one where everyone contributes to the vision and to the development of that vision. They invite people to come up with new ideas, and give them the facilities to put these into practice online, for example a volunteer came up with the idea for an i-phone application for the charity, and they were able to help them make that happen. She emphasized the need for participation and co-creation, working together. Not having just one man or a couple of people with all the power, and who have all the ideas and everyone else follows just their ideas and few others have influence. She advocates this bottom up, community-based, integrated, evolutionary approach to all leadership and to churches.

All of this was a revelation, but at the same time, confirmed nagging feelings I have had about church structure for some time. I have talked before that God’s original plan is for all of us to be particpants and co-creators with Him, and that part of following Jesus is being a participant and co-creator with Him in the restoration of all things to how God originally intended to be, and that this is the way we find our true identity, and when we really discover church.

I’ve argued before – and indeed the whole reason the site was titled ‘Evolving Church’ – that the church needs to be in constant flux, evolving, adapting, changing, both on a bigger scale and on a local scale, to become the real community of followers of Jesus that God intended, and to be truly effective in the world both locally and beyond. We cannot be dogmatic or static, there is no one fixed model that works in every single area, every single community, every single class structure or region. There are basic, essential principles which underlie how we do church, which don’t essentially change, but the practicalities of church will be different depending on where and when you are, and will evolve and change as the culture and environment around it changes.

I still believe all this. And what I heard today only affirms me in my belief and my trust in the idea of Evolving Church.

It gives me great encouragement to hear all of this from people, people who themselves are making such a difference in the world, and it gives me great encouragement that many others think that these kind of ideas and methods are the best way for the church moving forward.

It also represents a great challenge, as we see what is possible if you work hard enough, have enough faith and believe in what you are doing – and the cause is worthy – then you can achieve much more than many people may have thought possible. It brought home to me the huge potential the church really has, and how important it is that we take their inspiration and ideas on board, so that we don’t keep on lagging behind, but stay instead ahead of the curve, that we are the innovators, the trend-setters, the cause promoters, and the inspiration of our culture. That we get away from religion, to the heart of what our faith is all about. People are tired of the old religion and legalism, and following Jesus was never meant to be that anyway.

Let us be the people who make that possible.

We are the church – of now and the future. Lets make the church of now and the future a good one

I had a conversation with someone I know recently, someone who doesn’t follow Jesus, and someone I thought who had no interest in God. I found that not only does he not have an interest in God, but believes He exists and is real.

No, his problem wasn’t God.

His problem was religion.

I had no problems talking to him about Jesus, the Bible, God and my faith whatsover, and he was even open to a proper discussion on the subject. He even went so far as to say he believed Jesus existed.

But religion? Not interested. Not one iota.

And, to be honest, I was inclined to agree with him.  I’ve written before how if you look at the story of God in the Bible from the beginning and read certain passages in their proper context its possible to understand that Jesus didn’t come here to start a new religion. He didn’t come just to take care of our sin. No, Jesus came to restore all things to how they were originally created to be – including the human race and its sin – and to show us how God has always intneded and planned for us to live. The cross and empty tomb makes possible a new way of life, bringing the sacred and the common closer, and bring God’s way of life into the everyday of our lives.

Before Jesus’ sacrifice it wasn’t possible, religion was necessary in one sense because the seperation between the sacred and the common was very much there, because of the mistakes of the human race. However, once Jesus took care of this the curtain was torn, God – the sacred – could once again become part of the common, the everyday. God could become part of our everyday lives in a much more real way, and God could send His spirit on us to equip us to live this life.

Jesus sacrifice and resurrection actually was then intended not to start a new religion, but to end religion altogether, and initiate a big restoration project on all of creation, with the risen Jesus, the Son of God, at the centre of it all.

Yes, you heard me right.

Jesus didn’t come to start a new religion. I would argue He came to abolish religion altogether.

So, you ask, if that is the case then what is the purpose and role of church?

Well, God has always thought humans work best in community. Right from the beginning He said that it wasn’t good for us to do this life alone. Jesus even speaks of the importance of ‘church’ and it is menitioned as the bride of Christ. In fact, in the absence of religion, church – in the truest sense, in the way God designed it rather than the way we often do it – is the best way to do community and for followers of Christ both to meet and serve together.

Church, in its best and truest form, is important to God, and important to us. In fact, even more than that, we are church.

A church service and church community is where you will connect with other folllowers of Jesus, where you get discipleship and accountability as you look to grow and mature, and know Jesus more. It is where you get support for the things that are going on in your life, practically, emotionally, physically and spiritually. It is where you are taught about what it means to bring the Christ into the everyday, to see Christ in the everyday, and to be Christ in the everyday.

That’s the purpose of teaching/preaching, to enable and equip people to bring Jesus into their everyday more and more, and bring truths from scripture to life in way that helps us in today’s context, in creative, innovative and relevant ways.

But make no mistake. ‘Church’ is not the point. Jesus is.

Some people make church their idol you see. Lots of problems can rise up in a church if you are not careful, no matter how successful or how progressive and positive the intentions.  In fact, success can often be the cause of some problems in itself.

One, some or all of the following problems can rise up in a church if it becomes the idol, or the centre of everything:

-Preserving the status quo, getting everyone to fit to the same mould can become a bad habit. People can get entrenched and happy with how things are and stop being progressive, whatever their original intnentions were.

-A culture can easily build up where you get used to only meeting God at church, where church and associated events are the only places where you are ‘allowed’ to meet God or where God is perecieved to be present.by many. You start to feel guilty – or be made to feel guilty by others –  for not going every single week.. The church can start to exist to defend itself and further itself rather than for the good of the community outside and to serve God’s purposes.

-People start looking to build their own kingdoms and powerbases and this is a detriment to the ministry of the church,and divisions can be formed.

I am not saying these things happen in all churches, far from it. In fact I don’t think it happens now as much as it once did, and a corner is being turned. But one or some of these things can happen in any church, no matter how progressive or successful it mught be, no matter how good its original intentions.

These issues arise because people can easily take their eye off what is the most important thing, which isn’t the church itself , isn’t the organization or institution,

but following Jesus,

helping others to enage and grow in Jesus

and ‘being’ church.

That’s why I believe when starting any church it is vital to make serving Jesus, acting in the interests of His kingdom and glory, being obedient to Him and serving Him and worshipping Him and His interests over the interests of the church itself has to be at the heart of a church’s key values.

Jesus needs to be the point.

We need to promote Christ in the everyday

and help people live that out – and that becomes our evangelism,

it becomes ‘doing church’.

Jesus becomes our whole life.

The life of everyone who is part of that church community, and then part of the lives of the people they know, and so on and so on. And we still have as part of ‘doing  church’ a community of followers who we connect with and who help us grow and mature, and who we can be accountable to, and who we can meet for fellowship and teaching and encouraging together. Not a place where the separation between sacred and everyday is increased and encouraged, but a place where we are taught how to find Jesus in the everyday and how to make Him part of our everyday – then go and do it.

The Sunday meetings are important. Very important.

But they are not the point.

They are not the only place we ‘do church’.

Church was never intended to be an organization or institution, or ‘the establishment’. Its about following Jesus, proclaiming His kingdom, being obdient to Him, seeking to build His kingdom and not our own, seeking not to separate the sacred from the everyday, but promote this idea and teach about how we can do that more and more.

Its His church. Its a community of followers of Jesus.

It so important church leaders are emphasizing always that being church and doing church is as much about being Jesus in our everyday as what we do on Sundays. I think its is absoluetly vital to ensuring a church stays church in the truest sense, and avoids falling into the religious trap which Jesus never wanted His followers to fall into.

The church of Jesus Christ – the community of people who choose to follow Him, ‘Christians’ –  have fallen into the trap of religion. Some are desperately trying to escape and trying to find a way out. Others have fallen away because they have lost hope. Others thought about God but gave up when religion got in the way. Others see Christianity and the traditional church image and don’t even take a second look.

The church is very sick. Jesus wants to save it, like He has already saved us all. Jesus sacrifice was a once and for all sacrifice to ‘reconcile to Himself all things in heaven and on earth’ – all things, literally translated from the Greek, means literally ‘all things’. Jesus has opened the door for the restoration of all things – and that includes not just people, not just the earth, but the church – who are His people, and His bride.

In all seriousness, this topic is so huge and has such repercussions I have a feeling it may eventually turn into a book (the title above could probably be a book title). But I will end for now with this:

I believe people are looking for God. They are looking for a way of life better than the one they have. They are looking for real genuine hope.

But they are sick of religion. They want God, they may even want church. But they don’t want legalism, rules, traditions and politics to get in the way of it. They want something that is liberating, life changing and sets them free from the culture they are in and gives them genuine, authentic hope. They want faith which deals with the real issues in our world today and the day to day problems of life and faces up to them rather than brushes over them.

They are sick of today’s ‘pharisees’ telling them what they aren’t and not, and how bad they are, being guilted into faith, and of being ‘sold’ Jesus like a bad insurance policy.

They want to be set free. They want to be the people they were made to be.

Its up to the church. Its up to church leaders. Its up to followers of Jesus. They – we – are the ones given this responsibility. We are meant to be the answers to prayer. We are the ones with the respsonsibility to rise to this challenge, and we have the creator of the universe to help us. We need to stop dividing and fighting over issues which don’t matter, and unite around issues that do. Issues that matter to Jesus that all of us can make a difference to – locally, nationally and internationally. Projects like the foodbank are one obvious example close to home.

The question all followers of Jesus need to ask ourselves – me included –  is ‘What am I going to do?’ Then they need to do it.

And if you don’t know Jesus, He is looking for you. He is waiting for you. And He’s not the church, He’s not a hypocrite, He’s not against you, He doesn’t reject you and He wants to hear from you. He is so much more than you think or been led to believe.

What are you – indeed, what am I – waiting for?

Once in a while a project is put in place which really makes me feel alive, a project which gets everyone united, together and working toward a common cause. Something which reminds me of what church really is all about, and what in fact it really means to be a ‘Christian community’. Something which reminds me of the difference we can really make if we choose to. I am lucky to be part of a church which seeks to promote project such as this, and they have been a big supporter of this new project.

What is it? It’s a project run by all the churches working together in Sutton, called ‘Sutton Foodbank’.

It is exactly what it says.

A collection of people pooling their resources – time, energy, talents, money and of course food – in order to provide three days worth of free food to local people who really need it. I have signed up to get involved in this project and many others have done the same. So often we talk about what church really is and what it means to ‘do church’, and this is a prime example. Watch the video below and it explains it in a bit more detail.

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikNpVb2g7Lk]

A bit cheesy I grant you – especially the music – but the message is powerful. They mention in the video about a little message that every person who uses the bank gets about Jesus along with their food, but what really struck me is that even without that verbal/written bit about Jesus, they are getting a message about Jesus and Christians, and church, which goes way beyond any words.

This is church.
This is the way of Jesus in action.
This is what it looks like to follow Jesus in real life, in practice.

The more projects like this Christians and churches get involved in, and the more publicity and success they get, the more people see the reality of Jesus in action. They see what real church is. They see beyond rules, legalism, tradition, the establishment and religion. They see that Jesus has a real impact on people, and that He not only cares about them as individuals, but that He changes others lives and can the power to inspire people and motivate people to do things that you’d never expect.

You see beyond all the bookmarks and ‘obvious’ message of Jesus getting out, the message that gets out is love.

This says to people that their faith isn’t just a bunch of rules and traditions and that its not full of hyporcrites who don’t care.

It shows that followers of Jesus are exactly the same as everyone else, and don’t always fit with everyone’s preconceived ideas of what Christians are. It shows that some of us are willing to take action against real issues which matter to real people, and give of their time, food and energy to better the lives of those in need. It shows what followers of Jesus can do if they unite together behind a common cause and purpose, and when we look beyond our divisions and look to what God is wanting us to do, and the kind of causes that Jesus wants us to get behind. It shows what followers of Jesus stand for, and ignores what we’re against.

So of you live in the Sutton area, I’d encourage you to support the Sutton Foodbank. You can find out more information here and for further information this site should give you more details about the ‘Community Works’ project in Sutton who are running the project and some contact details. Or you can contact one of the partner churches to find out more.

If you don’t live in Sutton, and your home town doesn’t have a food bank, I’d encourage you to look into the idea. Getting many Christian communities working together behind a cause like this is exactly what church as Jesus envisioned it is all about. Church has never been just about a Sunday meeting or house group, its about projects like this. Serving and giving of our time, energy and money to the wider community, meeting needs of those around us.

That’s following Jesus.
That’s doing church.
That’s faith in action.

I was off work sick today, resting and trying to find something to do, and ended up chatting with someone on Facebook. It was in response to a blog post on my pastor’s own blog on this difference between breaking the rules because that’s what it means to follow Jesus, and breaking rules for the sake of being rebellious, even as a Christian. It’s a pretty good post (worth a read, epsecially for those interested in theology), and I wrote an initial response to it. Then a man called Andrew Bindon, who believes slightly differently to me, responded to this. Then I responded to Him.

It ended up being a discussion which allowed me to ask myself questions about what I believe and why, and have intelligent conversation and healthy debate with someone who believes very differently. I think in the end there was mutual respect between us, rather than the bitterness, judgement and division which often gets attributed to discussions on Christianity, especially between Christians and non-Christians.

I learnt more about Jesus, about myself and what I believed and made a new friend, even if we believe totally different things.

Below is the transcript of our conversation over the day. He has published exactly the same on his blog. We both felt that it was a conversation and discussion which many more would benefit from seeing and I’d love to hear your responses. Here it is…

James Prescott (me): What we have to remember is we are not called either to be rebels or to be conformists. We are called to follow Jesus, whatever the implications of that. If we appear non-conformist or conformist, or rebels, as a result of this then so be it. But ultimately its finding the real Jesus and being obedient to Him and His calls on our lives which really matters. I am currently reading ‘The Orthodox Heretic’ at the moment and finding it quite interesting, and have just bought ‘How Not to Speak of God’, which I am looking forward to even more now. Interesting post.

Andrew Bindon: The example of Jesus’s life was not to be a follower of anyone… he wasn’t.

JP: Jesus showed us that the best way to live was the way He lived – the way of God. He was obedient to God and lived the way God always wanted us to live, and made it possible for us to live that life.

AB: The same way that Mohamed was not a follower of Mohamed, and Moses was not a follower of Moses, Jesus was not a follower of Jesus. The example these great spiritual leaders set was to live lives of radical spiritual leadership. They engaged in their relationship with the eternal to such a degree that their engagement became a blessing to all of us.

JP: Jesus wasn’t a follower of Jesus, of course not. But He was the Son Of God, and was at once 100% man and 100% God – as complex as that sounds (and its probably even more complex to explain and understand). He showed us in His life how God wants us to live as human beings, and made it possible for us to live that life. Jesus engaged with God in a way none of us could, and through His sacrifice allowed us all to engage with God in that way. Whether we do and how much we do this is ultimately our choice.

AB: What I’m suggesting is that Jesus engaged with God in a way that all of us could. If we could not then all our spiritual endeavours would be futile. That we do engage with God in that way is the direction where the hope of humanity for a better world lies. If we are to learn from his example, we should not be a follower of anyone, we should especially not be a follower of Jesus – that would be to exactly miss the point of his life and turn his ministry into a false idol.

JP: Jesus asked his disciples to follow Him, and in Gesthemene he prayed for all his followers, and all who ‘would believe in me through their message’. Jesus engaged fully with God because while he was 100% human he was also 100% God. He showed us that this type of life is possible, and that God wants to be fully engaged in our lives, in the everyday. The point of Jesus life was to show us how God wants to live and that following the way of God, and God’s original intention for humanity, as embodied by Jesus, is the best way to live, and furthermore to open us up to a full relationship with Him through His death and resurrection. Jesus showed us that we could fully engage with God and made it possible. Jesus wants us to follow Him in as much as He wants us to engage with God in the way He did, and be obedient to God as He was. Jesus was obedient to and submitted to God’s plan. Jesus and his ministry is no false idol though, Jesus is the Son of God.

JP: Jesus had a special anointing and gifting from God, and was the Son of God, both at once fully man – in terms of temptations, expereiences and emotions – but also fully God – totally without sin. He was tempted how we are all tempted, but didn’t give into temptation once. Because of that He was able to make the sacrifice for the rest of us, which not only made a relationship with God fully available, but also set in motion the restoration of all things in heaven and earth, so that heaven and earth are once again the same place. Jesus showed us a ‘new humanity’, which in reality is the ‘original humanity’ God always intended for us.

AB: I think there is a misunderstanding around the idea Jesus “wants us to follow him”. Wittgenstein pointed out how once you have climbed the ladder of understanding you must throw the ladder away. The ladder is not the point. The ladder only gets you to where you are going, like a signpost that points you the way. Otherwise life becomes about the signpost, rather than the direction it is pointing in. It is a mistake to think that life is about Jesus, in the same way that it is a mistake to think that a signpost pointing towards London is itself London.

JP: You’re talking about Jesus as just some minor prophet from 2000 years ago, when I don’t believe that. I believe He was different to any man before or since, fully God while at the same time sharing all the expereinces and temptations we have. Jesus wants us to live the life God always intended for us, and He showed us how to do this on a very basic level and also made it fully possible through the cross. I call myself a follower of Jesus, because I try to live my life around the values and lifestyle he stood for, and by His teachings about God and life. Obviously I am not him and never will be. But Jesus embodied an atttiude, a way of life, a way of living and seeing the world and other people, and a basic set of principles, and He asks us all to follow those and make those part of our everyday. In that sense He does want us to be His followers. Jesus makes sense of our lives, and points us in a direction different that maybe we would want or expect, of course He does. He helps us see our true identity and is a guide, freind and teacher along the road to discovering our true selves and the role God wants for us in the world, and ultimately in discovering the reality of God in our everyday lives, and making it more of a reality.

AB: Thank you very much for our conversation today James, I have enjoyed discussing this with you. (In between trying to get some work done!) Clearly we don’t agree about some things, but I think that on the whole we agree about more than we disagree.

JP: It has been an interesting conversation to be sure.

AB: Hooray, everybody is happy! Those are the kinds endings I like.

Hope you enjoyed the conversation, and learnt a lot. As a Christian the questions Andrew poses are challenging for us all and ones we should all hear and think about our responses to. If you’re not a Christian but thinking about Jesus, I hope my responses answered some basic questions, and weren’t too full of jargon for you! We are all exploring our relationship with God. Life is a journey and we are all at different places in that journey, and we are all on a journey with God, even if we don’t know it. God wants to be involved in all of our lives, and He doesn’t want to be some distant person away from anything, only called on in emergencies. He wants to be part of our everyday – or rather, He wants us to see Him the everyday He’s already involved in.

He’s just waiting for us to respond to His invitaton. He sent Jesus to open the door to have relationship and restore the world to how it was originally made to be. Jesus has made that way of life available to us all, and doesn’t want us to be part a religion, but a way of life. The way of life intended for us from the beginning, the way of God. Through this we discover our true identity, and can play a part with Him in restoring this world to how it was always intended to be.

Andrew said following Jesus wasn’t important, but I believe it is the only hope for us. The only genuine hope there is for humanity. Jesus offers that hope, and its not fake,

its real.

In the brilliant film ‘The Dark Knight’ we meet a character called The Joker, played with Oscar-winning excellence by the late Heath Ledger. In the film the character tells his fellow criminals he is going to kill Batman. He attempts to do this by getting Batman to reveal his true identity, and is ruthless in his attempts to do this.

Essentially and he goes on TV and says that every day Batman doesn’t reveal his true identity, people will die. He ultimately ends up killing many more people , and eventually another character, the district attorney, pretends he is really Batman, to stop the killings and so that Batman himself can get on with his job. Later on in the film the Joker makes another threat, this time to blow up a hospital unless someone is killed. The link is here if you want to watch the clip, though beware it is a bit disturbing, only watch if you have a thick skin.

Essentially, the Joker is bargaining with Batman. He is in essence telling him “You stop being Batman, and I won’t kill these people” or “If you don’t kill this man, then thousands more will be killed”

The bottom line  in all this is “You do this, and I will, in return, do or not do this”

An exchange. Life and freedom as long as someone complies with certain conditions.

I think sometimes, in fact more often that we’d like to think, that people have this attitude towards Jesus and sin. Essentially for them Christianity becomes all about avoiding eternal punishment in hell. As long as you comply with certain conditions, then you can receive the love of God and you get the ticket into heaven. You recognize how bad you are and make a grovelling apology to a big and distant God who is angry with you, then He might just let you into heaven – which they usually talk about as some place elsewhere, (which as I’ve said before, isn’t actually what the Bible says).

They believe you can only really experience God and meet with Him if you know Jesus. Their evangelism becomes about defending what they believe, and focussed on what people are not, what’s wrong with them, that they are wicked and awful and that if they don’t believe in Jesus, they are doomed to burn in hell. Some Christians even say this as evangelism. Many don’t, but that is essentially their basis for argument anyway. Its almost a security blanket, an insurance policy.

This idea that “If you’re right and I believe I’ve lost nothing, but if I’m right and you don’t believe you’re in trouble”.

No mention of love.

No mention of grace.

Frankly, not loving whatsover.

Its enough to put anyone off the Christian faith and Jesus.

I often think this kind of faith is down to people’s own insecurities. They need to know some people are in and out with absolute certainty, so that they they can always take the high ground and be right, and they need this kind of non-negotiable, ‘in or out’ faith to make them feel more secure about themselves. They don’t like to question or explore any deeper meaning of scripture but prefer to know set boundaries. It appears to me to be like joining a club when you become a Christian when you look at it this way, rather than a journey or a real relationship which deepens or matures over time. It seems like something which doesn’t compel anyone to change their lifestyle at all, merely to believe the right things – when Jesus said, and indeed James wrote in the Bible, that real faith should be shown in our actions. If we have really experienced God then our lives will inevitably be changed, and we will be compelled to change.

That kind of faith, this idea of bargaining with our faith and making God’s blessings about whether you were ‘in or out’ is totally contrary to the way of Jesus.  Jesus didn’t ever do this with regular people. Look at the people He healed, did He tell them all they had to repent or they were going to hell? No. He loved them, He healed them, He blessed them and told them in some instances to go tell everyone about Him.

He told people they needed to repent and believe, but never threatened them with eternal damnation in hell if they didn’t. He loved people first. He let people experience God fully before repentance, not just afterwards. There was no ‘I’ll bless you, but please repent first’. He merely loved, taught and healed people. People recognized who He was and became followers without repentance first.

The solider at the cross who said He was the Son of God.

The man who had demons driven out of him, and was sent off to evangelize almost instantly by Jesus.

The woman at the well.

The woman who touched His cloak and got healed instantly, merely because she recognized who Jesus was and had faith.

None of these people are reported in the Bible as repenting first before they understood who Jesus was, before they knew God and experienced God through Jesus. None of these people were blessed merely becuase they had repented. It was the grace and love of Christ in His words, His actions and how He treated them which stood out and convinced them, even before their own repentance. They recognised the truth of who Jesus was before they ever repented, and God’s hand and blessing were already on them.

God’s love is not conditional.

God’s grace is not conditional.

God’s blessing is not conditional.

Now of course, I do believe fundamentally that repentance is necessary to have a full relationship with God, I am not doubting that or denying that. To know and experience God in the way He originally intended, repentance is necessary. All of us have played a part in the turning away from God that the human race has been doing collectively from nearly the beginning. All of us have made mistakes and done things which seperate us from God or have not helped the peace of the world. But God will speak to us, and we can experience Him and even recognize He is true before we repent.

You see real repentance isn’t just saying sorry. Its recognizing our role in making the world the way it is, and a decision to turn around and live another way, according to another reality. To seek to try and live the way we were originally designed to live, to find our true identity with God, and a choice to reject the way we’ve always lived in favour of another. To make a complete reversal on how we’ve done things before. That doesn’t mean we will always get it right, it means we will work through these choices every day.

Repentance is something you do every day. You make a choice each day to reject the old way you did things, and choose God’s way, and participate with Him in His restoration of the world.

God’s love isn’t dependent on it.

God’s grace isn’t dependent on it.

God’s blessing isn’t dependent on it.

God’s presence with us isn’t dependent on it.

You see, the way to proper evangelism isn’t scaring the life out of people and saying that they are not good enough and without God they are doomed to hell. Its not about shoving a tract in their hands telling them how much they need Jesus and if they don’t believe then their future is bleak and without Him they are never going to be good enough. Its not this at all.

Its not about bargaining, or some kind of deal we have with God, or He has with us.

Ultimately the best way we can evangelize is by loving people even when they don’t deserve it. Its about serving and helping people when you’re not asked, and maybe even without them knowing.Its about showing people that there is a God who loves them just as they are, even with all the mistakes they make, regrets they have and bad decisions they’ve made. A God who made this world and had a original destiny for it and for us, and when we thought we knew better He even sent His own son to die, so that  relationship with Him could be restored. A God wants them to partner with Him in restoring the world to how it was always intended, and bringing Heaven back to earth. A God who can bring us hope even in the times of our deepest despair.

A God whose love is so vast is has overcome even death, and will never end.

So please, lets end this idea of having to bargain with God to bless us and love us. Lets stop limiting Jesus to just forgiveness of sin, and let people see that His sacrifice was about restoring everything in creation to how was intended to be. Lets stop trying to evangelise by trying to tell people what they are not and how bad they are.

Instead, lets show people through our words and our lives who God is, about what Jesus is like, and explain the real meaning of what He’s done.

That its not just to reunite us with God and give us forgiveness, but allowing us to partner with Him in restoring everything back to how it was always planned, and bring heaven to earth.

Because God was never about scare tactics and telling people they weren’t good enough. He was about loving them and showing them the true nature of God.

I often hear Christians talk with such certainty about their future. They happily talk about how some glad morning they are off to heaven, and how happy they are about that. They take the  basic ideas of the Christian faith and they love the certainty of them. They know what all the key passages of the Bible really mean and they are certain of it, and very relaxed about the whole thing.

These people often seem detached from reality.

They always appear to see people as either ‘Christians’ or ‘non-Christians’ and everything in life is divided up into these two categories. If its ‘non-Christian’ then obviously its not spiritual and doesn’t connect us with God, and is evil. They always ask if a secular pop star is a Christian or not, or make a judgement on their music based on that bands/persons’ faith. When people who belong to another religion say something wise, they seem to think it means less because they aren’t Christians. Often their churches only serve to highlight the difference between the sacred and secular, and not only that increasing it. God turns up at church, or only where two or more Christians are gathered.

All set ideas. All taking place in some ‘Christian subculture’ where everything is amazing, then they go and live their lives ‘in the world’ which is evil and godless. God is mainly found at church and church activities. All people who don’t believe in Jesus will burn in hell for all eternity, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Christianity is often about maintaining the status quo and not upsetting or offending anyone, or upsetting the establishment as long as its legal and democratic, because its not loving to do that. There is one correct interpretation of the Bible and no other.

A lot of generalizations I know, but I know a lot of Christians who think like this or are similar to this, and have been to churches where they think like this. Do you know or have you met Christians like this? Have you visited churches like this?

Is this really what Jesus had in mind?

Look at Jesus. Really look at His life.

He upset people. Religous people and government people especially. In fact, He upset them so much and was such a threat to them they had Him executed. The problem was, it only made Him more powerful, especially when He rose from the dead as He had said He would.

Did Jesus talk about heaven like its some far distant land at the end? No, He talked about the restoration of all things – to how they were in the beginning, when Heaven and Earth were the same place.

He stood against religion.

He stood against injustice.

He stood against poverty.

He stood against materialism.

He wasn’t afraid to be unpopular or controversial in doing or saying the right thing. He wasn’t afraid to defy religious people and governments in doing the right thing. He wasn’t afraid to upset people for doing the right thing. He didn’t compromise at all.

He wasn’t afraid to ask questions. He sought to unite the sacred and the common, and make them one again, not separate them.

He didn’t come to start a new religion, but to announce a new way of living. A new culture. A new world. A new beginning. A new way of seeing the world, that has been God’s way from the very beginning. He came to open the door for us to have relationship with God again and for Him to be present with us in the world. He came to announce a giant earth-restoration project which He wants all of us to play a part in. Not to get us to go to church every week and make that the only place we can meet with God.

He came to reclaim all of creation as His own again, everything in creation. The creative impulse in us all. He allowed us to experience God in anything, anywhere, in anyone, if only we opened our eyes and hearts to see it.

He came to do away with labels, not to create another one.

He didn’t come to make us safe, but uncomfortable. To get us to ask questions and engage with Him and wrestle about the big issues of life with Him by our side. He came to give us security, but not a comfort zone. And although He did come to take away our sin, and achieved this through His death and resurrection, this was not the only thing He came to do.

This is not all the Christian faith and lifestyle is about.

This is not all church is about.

This is not all evangelism is about.

Many people mock the Pharisees who didn’t recognize Jesus and say that if He came down today we’d all recognise Him through His actions and character.

What an

arrogant

statement to make.

To be honest, I wonder if I would recognize Jesus if He had come today and lived the life He calls us to.I think if He came He’d end up getting arrested for doing some good act for somebody and breaking some byelaw. Or by standing up against injustice but in sodoing breaking one of our laws. If He started to tell us what the kingdom of Heaven should really look like in today’s world, if He told us what following God really meant for us in today’s consumer culture, He’d probably be turfed out of the church as a heretic or as misinterpreting scripture. He’d be called a false teacher or something. Mature, wise pastors and Christians would not even realize who He was – good people, God-fearing people (much like the Pharisees) but blind to the reality in front of them. He’d be from the wrong kind of area, and would probably on the poverty line and amongst the marginalized.  The parables He told would be different, and maybe we’d see who we really are in the parables He did tell. Maybe we need to realize who we are in these parables.

Would I recognize Jesus if He had come today, or if He came back anonymously today?

Its a question I don’t like to think about too much, because I worry that I wouldn’t, and that the real Jesus would expose all the flaws in my faith. He’d expose all the areas I could do better but don’t because consumerism, money or other things blind me to the truth. Maybe that my whole lifestyle is a heresy to scripture. Maybe that my attitudes to people are all wrong. Ultimately, that I’m a total hypocrite.

I wonder if I recognize Him, and I wonder what I would say in response.

You see we can ignore a question like this and put it at the back of our minds, and think we’re okay because we’re Christian and ‘got the ticket’ so it doesn’t matter so much, or we can think we’re pretty decent, mature Christians and while we’re not perfect we’re pretty good…

…and forget about the difficult question.

Jesus wants a church who fights injustice wherever it sees it. He wants a church that deals with poverty and doesn’t brush it under the carpet.He wants a church where worship isn’t just amazing songs but is how we treat the poor and the oppressed, and the outcasts.He wants a church that takes a stand against war and violence.

He wants a church that isn’t part of a religion or institution, and doesn’t put tradition over doing the right thing. He wants a church that is open to all people, where people can come as they are.He wants a church that sees evangelism not as giving people a ticket for heaven so they can avoid hell, but as bringing heaven more and more to earth, and showing people God’s big plan for this world and that He has a role for them to play in that plan.

He wants a church that loves until it hurts.

Jesus said (quoting Isaiah) “They honour me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship is in vain, their teachings are but rules taught by men”. (Matthew 15 v 8-9)

I think this is more true of many churches – not all – and Christians today than we like to think.

Where are our hearts?

Where is the heart of the church?

Are they in tune with God, or do we only think they are?

“If it’s a Christian way, then it should be leading us toward a new kind of humanity. A church should be an inspiring display of a new way to be human” – Rob Bell, interviewed 2008

Interesting quote isn’t it. Its something we don’t often read, church and Jesus being about creating a new humanity itself, that Christianity or church shouldn’t be about seperating us from the rest of humanity, but instead of uniting it together.

Its the bigger picture of Jesus.
Its the bigger picture of church.
Its a bigger picture of humanity.
Its a bigger reality.

You see, God had a plan for humanity and creation all along. Right from the beginning, there was an idea for it all. It wasn’t made perfect – but good. It wasn’t static, there was room for more creativity, more growth.

It was without sin. Totally in unity with God, heaven and earth together.

But it wasn’t static – what we often term as ‘perfect’. You see we think of perfect as some ideal and after that there is nothing to change about whatever it is. Or perfect is the only opposite to sin.

You see here is the thing. God is perfect. Nothing else.

At creation, the universe wasn’t perfect. But it was good.

Without suffering.
Without death.
Without pain.
Without abandonment and mistrust.
Without our rejection of God – sin.

It was God and man united almost as one. In the same place.
Heaven and earth, in the same place.

A place of huge potential for growth, creativity, life, joy.

But we ruined it when we rejected God. We separated heaven and earth, we put a barrier between us and God, we rejected the way of God and decided to try and do things by ourselves. God gave us the freedom to do that, and still allows us the freedom to do that.

He’s not going to force Himself on anyone.

Jesus came 2000 years ago and was executed by the Roman Empire, seen as a rebel troublemaker who had the potential to bring a revolution to a small part of the Roman empire. Three days later He rose up, and over 500 people testified to seeing Him alive.

This happened, according to the scriptures, not just to bring God and mankind back together, not just for our forgiveness. But to bring the whole of creation back to God.

To restore all things how they were intended. To make things as they were always planned to be. And now He asks us to partake with Him in this grand plan, to renounce our rejection of God and partner with Him in remaking this world back to how it should be.

Bring humanity back to how it should have been. Was always planned to be. Was always intended to be.

It is, in one sense, the ‘new humanity’. But in another sense its a reclamation of something we had right at the beginning. Its a restoration of humanity to how it was always intended.

Peace. Justice. Joy. Unity. Equality. Love.

No war. No weapons. No criminals. No injustice. No grudges. No adultery or rejection. No cynicism. No inequality. No poverty.

This is the humanity Jesus spoke of. And now we are in process of trying to restore that humanity. In small steps, and not perfectly. But in process.

Bell speaks of church being an ‘inspiring display’ of this humanity. He is spot on.

Church is a community of followers of Jesus. A community who are all trying to live out this new humanity together. A church meeting should be a place where you are equipped to live out this new humanity, and taught about what this new humanity looks like in today’s world and helps people find their role in God’s plan for the new humanity, to find their true identity. Outside of this the members of this community can be accountable to each other and support and encourage each other in doing this, acting like a support network.

Ultimately though, the new humanity is really lived out in our day to day lives, in the everyday, in the ordinary, in the common. In how we live out what we believe practically.

That’s what church really is.
That’s where church makes this new humanity a reality.Because of course, church is not about separating the sacred and the everyday, but bringing them closer together.

When that really happens, when we truly embrace this new humanity, then radical change begins to happen. When people start to see church as it really should be, when people start to see the real Jesus in action, when they see this new humanity as a reality, and understand that following Jesus and church isn’t about religion, division, rules, tradition, hypocrisy and legalism, its about a new humanity and a new reality, a great big earth/humanity restoration project in which we all have a role to play and which not only can change the world but make it how it was always meant to be, the best it can possibly be, they can get inspired. They can start to see Jesus differently, and the idea of church is transformed.

When we bring the sacred and the everyday closer, we find the real church,

the real Jesus,

and the new humanity.